Outrage in Australia, Ex-Scientology Story #427

 

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Estelle Baines had a lot to say at this demonstration in Sydney about how she was treated while in Scientology.  She gives a laundry list of offences that include lack of pay and forced disconnection.  She was in the Scientology for five years which included being a member of the Sea Org.  Her points are emotional, and very real.  

How is Scientology faring down under?  None too well according the recent census figures.  Less than 3,000 people call themselves Scientologists.  This video also includes some interesting footage of the Jedi religion which is much larger than Hubbard’s followers.  

 

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Published in: on October 19, 2013 at 8:58 pm  Comments (1)  

Sandy Holeman’s Story; Idealism Abused. Ex-Scientology story #424

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Sandy Holman was an idealistic young woman in college when she first heard of Scientology.  She heard from her brother word of a group of dedicated people working to improve the lives of people and save the world which in 1970, just as now, was in dire need of saving. 

            Besides these altruistic impulses Sandy also had a very personal goal; to become, “Clear.”  At this time, before Hubbard dreamed up his “OT” or Operating Thetan levels, being clear was everything to a Scientologist.  It meant getting rid of your, “reactive mind,” which was a repository of past failures and misunderstandings.  The reward for this was tremendous.  Hubbard had promised in his book, “Dianetics,” that you would have a perfect memory and freedom past life trauma.  Diseases ranging from arthritis to leukemia could be cured.  Even the wearing of glasses would be obsolete.  These were but a few of the promised benefits of becoming clear; no wonder Scientologists wanted to reach that level very badly. 

            Sandy soon became an ardent Scientologist and enlisted in Hubbard’s Sea Org, the somewhat paramilitary group who delivered his, “tech” and at that time, sailed his ships.  Hubbard had worn out his welcome in England and desired to practice his “science” free from all restraint.  So in February of 1971 she found herself on his flagship the, “Apollo,” which was then in Tangiers, Morocco. 

            Life aboard ship under the gaze of the Commodore himself was some heady stuff back in those days but it was no bed of roses by any stretch of the imagination.  Hubbard had the quaint notion that people really didn’t need much in the way of training for the jobs that they were assigned.  After all, they had all done this work in previous lifetimes so they should be able to do this now.  The results were predictable.  One day you would be doing a highly important job; the next, as a punishment for failure you would be cleaning the ship’s bilges.  Long hours day after day were common; sometimes working three or four days in a row without sleep was required.  It was at this time that she met and fell in love with another Sea Org member, Roger Barnes, who she married while on board the ship.   

            When Hubbard had enough of sailing the ocean blue he came ashore and set up shop in Clearwater, Florida, in 1975 much to the displeasure of the populace.  Sandy and her husband at this time were diligently working their way up the ladder in the Sea Org.  Her son was born in 1979.  Then this couple was assigned to work at one of the larger Scientology organizations in California; they both were given positions of responsibility and authority, all the while being paid a meager twenty-five dollars a week pay while Hubbard’s empire was taking in millions every month.  Hubbard was not much on sharing wealth.  

            During the early 1980’s Scientology was racked by internal disputes; this was the first real crack in the Scientology monolith.  Scientologists were being purged, others were quitting in droves.  Sandy and her husband were both given the Order of the Boot by the young rulers.  Hubbard himself was in deep hiding from the IRS and the lawyers of former members; David Miscavige was at this time first making a name for himself. 

            Scientology treated Sandy with the same contempt as others who were expelled.  She was shoved out the door with almost no money, no bank account, no credit card with little more than the clothes on her back and a young son in her arms.  Her husband got the same treatment. 

            This story is a cautionary tale about belief and betrayal.  Does Scientology still treat it’s members like cattle?  Just read about the death of Lisa McPherson and decide for yourself. 

Lisa McPherson’s death: 

 

Project Normandy was the plan to take over Clearwater. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Normandy

 

Published in: on October 8, 2013 at 2:03 pm  Leave a Comment  

Debbie Cook’s Letter to Scientologists; former FLB Captain speaks her mind.

This has been a year of bad news for Scientology.  Here is where it started!! Over 12,000 members got this email.

Debbie Cook was the Captain of the FSO for 17 years and was a Sea Org member for 30 years. She sent this email to her Scientologist friends on 31 Dec 2011.

“I am emailing you as a friend and fellow Scientologist. As we enter a new year, it is hoped that 2012 can be a year of great dissemination and a year of real progress up The Bridge for all Scientologists.

Although I am not in the Sea Org right now, I served in the Sea Org at Flag for 29 years. 17 of those years were as Captain FSO.

I am a trained auditor and C/S as well as an OEC, FEBC and DSEC.

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I am completely dedicated to the technology of Dianetics and Scientology and the works of LRH.

I have seen some of the most stunning and miraculous results in the application of LRH technology and I absolutely know it is worth fighting to keep it pure and unadulterated. My husband and I are in good standing and we are not connected with anyone who is not in good standing.

We have steadfastly refused to speak to any media, even though many have contacted us.

But I do have some very serious concerns about out-KSW that I see permeating the Scientology religion.

I have the utmost respect for the thousands of dedicated Scientologists and Sea Org members.Together, we have come through everything this world could throw at us and have some real impingement on the world around us. I am proud of our accomplishments and I know you are too.

However there is no question that this new age of continuous fundraising is not our finest moment.

LRH says in HCO PL 9 Jan 51, An Essay on Management, “drop no curtains between the organization and the public about anything.”-LRH

Based on this policy I am communicating to you about some situations that we need to do something about within our religion, within our group. Actions that are either not covered in policy or directly violate LRH policy and tech include the extreme over-regging and fund-raising activities that have become so much a part of nearly every Sea Org org and Class V org as well as every “OT Committee”.

This fundraising is not covered anywhere in LRH policy.

Hardworking Sea Org members and the dedicated staff of orgs around the world aren’t choosing to do these actions.

Nor are the OTs. I am sure they would be more than happy if they could just get on with direct dissemination of Scientology as they have done for so many years.

But the truth is that this is being driven from the very highest echelons within the Scientology structure and clearly there is a lot of pressure to make targets that are being set.

The IAS:

The IAS was created unbeknownst to LRH in 1984 by Marc Yager and David Miscavige.

This was supposed to be based on LRH policies on the subject of membership and the HASI, however the IAS is nothing like the membership system described by LRH which only has two memberships and is covered in HCO PL 22 March 1965 “Current Promotion and Org Program Summary, Membership Rundown” and states: “There are two memberships…”– LRH

LRH lists there the INTERNATIONAL ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP and gives its cost at 10 pounds sterling or $30 US.

He also lists a LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP which is priced at $75 US.

There are no other memberships or statuses approved or known to LRH.

Furthermore, membership monies are supposed to go directly to the org where the membership is signed up, and the money used for dissemination by that org, in that area.

This is covered in HCOPL 1 Sept 1965R Membership Policies. “It all goes into the HCO Book Account in the area where the membership is brought and is not part of the organization’s weekly gross income. Membership monies go to dissemination”.- LRH

Currently membership monies are held as Int reserves and have grown to well in excess of a billion dollars.

Only a tiny fraction has ever been spent, in violation of the policy above. Only the interest earned from the holdings have been used very sparingly to fund projects through grants.

In fact many of the activities you see at IAS events are not actually funded by the IAS, but rather by the Scientologists involved.

Think about it, how many ads disseminating Scientology, Dianetics or any Scn affiliated programs have you seen on TV? Heard on the radio? Seen in newspapers?

I haven’t seen one in the 4 years I have lived in San Antonio, Texas, the 7th largest city in the US. How many have you seen?

Donating anything more than a lifetime membership to the IAS is not based on LRH policy.

The article “What Your Donations Buy” (The Auditor, The Monthly Journal of Scientology No. 51, 1970) is clearly talking about how the church uses your donations for Dianetics and Scientology services.

Next time you are asked to donate outside of services, realize that you are engaged in fundraising and ask to see something in writing from L. Ron Hubbard that this is something he expects from you as a Scientologist.

New Org Buildings:

LRH also never directed the purchase of opulent buildings or the posh renovations or furnishings for every org. In fact, if you read HCO PL 12 March 75 Issue II, “The Ideal Org”, which is what this program has been called, and nowhere in it will you find 20 million dollar buildings or even any reference to the poshness of org premises at all as part of LRH’s description of an “Ideal Org”.

Instead, an Ideal Org was one that delivered and moved people up The Bridge – something that is not part of this “Ideal Org” program.

LRH says in the PL that an Ideal Org: “would be clean and attractive enough not to repel its public” – LRH.

This is all it says about the state of the building.

As a result of this off-policy alteration of the Ideal Org PL, we have the majority of top OTs, now deemed “OT Ambassadors”, heavily engaged in fund-raising activities that include “bingo”, “pirate dinners”, “knitting classes”, “hay rides”, and many other activities strictly revolving around raising funds for the required multi-millions of dollars to fund their “Ideal Org”.

As part of this, people around every org are now asked to donate to their local “Ideal Org” instead of their own services or their own Bridge.

LRH says in HCO PL Org Ethics and Tech: “GET RID OF DISTRACTIONS FROM SCIENTOLOGY in your org. Baby-sitting or raffle tickets and such nonsense.”-LRH

Yet these distractions are rampant as they are being used as fund-raisers to get money for the huge quotas being issued to fund the “Ideal Org”.

“If the org slumps… don’t engage in ‘fund-raising’ or ‘selling postcards’ or borrowing money. Just make more income with Scientology. It’s a sign of very poor management to seek extraordinary solutions for finance outside Scientology. It has always failed.” “For orgs as for pcs, ‘Solve It With Scientology’. “Every time I myself have sought to solve financial or personnel in other ways than Scientology I have lost out. So I can tell you from experience that org solvency lies in more Scientology, not patented combs or fund-raising barbeques.” – LRH HCO PL 24 February 1964, Issue II, Org Programming, (OEC Vol. 7, p. 930)

The point is that Scientologists and OT’s need to be training, auditing and disseminating to raw public- not regging each other or holding internal fundraisers.

Out Tech:

Over the last few years we have seen literally hundreds and hundreds of people who were validated as clear using the CCRD as developed by LRH now being told they are not Clear.

This included hundreds of OTs who were then put onto NED as a “handling”.

LRH clearly forbid any Dianetics to be run on OTs in HCOB “Dianetics Forbidden on OTs”. This is out tech.

This entire technical “handling” was directed personally by COB RTC and was done on thousands of OTs.

But it was based not on an LRH HCO Bulletin, but rather based on a single C/S instruction where LRH C/Sed one pre-OT who had not achieved the state of clear but was mid OT III and not making it.

LRH directed a solo handling that the pre-OT was to do to get himself to achieve the state of Clear.

This LRH C/S taken out of context was then used to implement a technical handling that was in direct violation of an LRH HCOB. This and other “technical handlings” done on Solo NOTs auditors created great expense and hardship on Solo NOTs auditors around the world as they were made to do these handlings to continue on the level.

Then there are the “fast grades at Flag” that no other org has. How can it be that Flag has been delivering grades differently to the rest of the world for the last 3 years?

Whatever the problem is, the fact is that having “fast Grades” at Flag creates a hidden data line and is a HIGH CRIME and the subject of an entire policy letter called HCOPL “TECH DEGRADES” which LRH has placed at the start of every Scientology course.

More recently the fad seems to be that nearly everyone needs to “re-do their Purif and do a long objectives program”, including many OTs mid Solo NOTs.

There is nothing wrong with doing objectives, but it is a clear violation of HCOB ‘MIXING RUNDOWNS AND REPAIRS” to have a person mid a rundown or OT level be taken off it and placed on an objectives program.

Solo NOTs auditors are also being made to get their objectives from a Class IX auditor at great expense as they are not being allowed to co-audit.

Flag has made many millions of dollars on the above listed out tech handlings because OTs mid Solo NOTs are forced to get these out-tech actions to be able to get back onto and stay on the level and complete it. Not to mention the spiritual effects of the out tech that this has on each OT.

I myself was subject to these out tech “handlings”, including extensive FPRD mid Solo NOTs. It took its toll in many ways, including physical situations I am still dealing with today. So I have some reality of the hardship caused.

LRH Command Structure:

LRH left us with a complex and balanced command structure, with our orgs led by the Office of ED International.

This office was considered so important that LRH created a special management group called the Watch Dog Committee whose only purpose was to see that this office and the other needed layers of management existed.

LRH ED 339R speaks of this extensively as the protection for our Church. But these people are missing. And not just some. As of just a few years ago there were no members of the office of ED Int on post, not to mention top execs throughout the International Management structure.

You may have also wondered… where is Heber, the President of the Church? 

What about Ray Mitthoff, Senior C/S International, the one that LRH personally turned over the upper OT Levels to?

How about Norman Starkey, LRH’s Trustee?

What happened to Guillaume – Executive Director International? And Marc Yeager, the WDC Chairman?

What happened to the other International Management executives that you have seen at events over the years?

The truth is that I spent weeks working in the empty International Management building at Int.

Empty because everyone had been removed from post. When I first went up lines I was briefed extensively by David Miscavige about how bad all of them were and how they had done many things that were all very discreditable.

This seemed to “explain” the fact that the entirety of the Watchdog Committee no longer existed.

The entirety of the Executive Strata, which consisted of ED International and 11 other top International executives that were the top executives in their particular fields, no longer existed.

That the Commodore’s Messenger Org International no longer existed. All of these key command structures of Scientology International, put there by LRH, had been removed. There were hundreds and hundreds of unanswered letters and requests for help from org staff, written based on LRH ED 339R where LRH says that staff can write to these top executives in the Exec Strata for help. But this is not possible if all these execs have been removed and no one is there to help them or to get evaluations and programming done to expand Scientology.

Well, after that I got to spend some quality time with Heber, Ray Mithoff, Norman Starkey, Guillaume, as well as the entirety of International Management at the time, who were all off post and doing very long and harsh ethics programs.

These have gone on for years and to the only result of that they are still off post.

There is no denying that these top executives have all gradually disappeared from the scene. You don’t see them at the big events anymore or on the ship at Maiden Voyage.

David Miscavige has now become the “leader” of the Scientology religion. Yet what LRH left behind was a huge structure to properly manage all aspects of the Scientology religion. He put a complete and brilliant organizational structure there, not one individual.

There never was supposed to be a “leader” other than LRH himself as the goal maker for our group.

There is a situation here and even if you have not been to the International Management Base you should be able to see that over regging and frequent tech changes are not OK and you have a responsibility to do something to Keep Scientology Working.

You should be able to find and read the references on membership in OEC Volume 6. Find and read the HCO PL entitled “The Ideal Org” (Data Series 40).

Find and read the references on org buildings, including HCO PL 24 Aug 65 II, Cleanliness of Quarters and Staff, Improve our Image.

Also, HCO PL 17 June 69, The Org Image.

If you don’t want to make waves or put yourself in danger of being taken off the level or denied eligibility, then there are some simple things you can do.

First and foremost, withdraw your support from off policy actions.

Stop donating to anything other than your own services and actual Bridge progress.

Simply demand to see an LRH reference that says you are required to make other such donations.

No one will be able to produce any references because there aren’t any.

Stop supporting any of the activities that are being done to forward off-policy fund-raising in your area.

LRH says what he expects of a Scientologist – that is what he expects you to do.

In fact he put it in HCOB 10 June 1960 Issue I, Keeping Scientology Working Series 33, WHAT WE EXPECT OF A SCIENTOLOGIST. Read it and follow it.

The other thing you can do is to send this email to as many others as you can, even if you do it anonymously.

Please keep this email among us, the Scientologists. The media have no place in this.

You may wonder why I have not written a KR and gone about my business. The answer is, I have. But there is no longer anyone to send that KR to.

But you can and should write reports and bring off-policy to the attention of local org executives and local Sea org members.

We are a strong and powerful group and we can affect a change. We have weathered many storms. I am sorry that I am the one telling you, but a new storm is upon us. It’s waves are already in the media and the world around us.

The truth is that as a Scientologist you are more able, more perceptive and have a higher integrity.

Scientology is supposed to allow you to “think for yourself” and never compromise your own integrity.

And most certainly LRH held every Scientologist responsible to KEEP SCIENTOLOGY WORKING.

I am not trying to do anything other than affect a change in serious off policy actions occurring. My husband and I have most of our family and many many good friends who are Scientologists.

I have not been real interested in sticking my neck out like this.

However, I also know that I dedicated my entire adult life to supporting LRH and the application of LRH technology and if I ever had to look LRH in the eye I wouldn’t be able to say I did everything I could to Keep Scientology Working if I didn’t do something about it now.

We all have a stake in this.

It is simply not possible to read the LRH references and not see the alterations and violations that are currently occurring.

You have a very simple obligation to LRH. Don’t participate in anything off policy, and let others know they should not either.

If every person who reads this email does nothing more than step back from off-policy actions we would have changed direction.

If we took all that energy and directed it into auditing, training and raw public dissemination, we would be winning.

And that is what I wish for you and all of us as we ring in this new year.

ARC,

Debbie Cook”

Published in: on September 18, 2013 at 8:31 pm  Comments (1)  

Ex-Scientology story #423, David Miscavige’s Secretary Climbs the Fence to Escape.

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Here is another harrowing escape from the clutches of Scientology.  This time it was Tanja and Stefan Castle who got out.  This story, dated July, 6, 2013, is courtesy of ABC News, Los Angeles.

Los ANGELES (KABC) — The bombshell divorce of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes has put Scientology back in the spotlight, with many people wondering what marriage is truly like inside the famously secretive church. One Southern California couple who spoke with Eyewitness News met, fell in love and married in the Church of Scientology.

Tanja and Stefan Castle were high-ranking insiders, devoting their lives to the church. But Tanja says she was pressured to divorce Stefan and never speak to him again — pressure she said was so intense, she felt trapped and took extraordinary steps to leave the church and its international headquarters near Hemet in the dead of night.

Tanja Castle grew up in Scientology and joined the “Sea Org,” Scientology’s elite religious order, where she met and married her husband, Stefan.

“When I went into the Sea Organization, I knew I was making sacrifices and I was happy to do so,” Tanja told Eyewitness News.

She spent 13 years working as executive secretary to top church leader David Miscavige, best friend and best man to Tom Cruise — and known to be a volatile, demanding leader.

Over time, Stefan says he fell out of favor with David Miscavige.

“It basically came down to Tanja was more his secretary than she was my wife,” said Stefan. “By miles.”

Tanja says over the years she was pressured by church officials to “disconnect” from Stefan and end their marriage.

“Why that had to be destroyed… you don’t have to destroy peoples’ marriages,” said Tanja.

Disconnection is the term the church uses to describe how some scientologists cut off communication with family members or friends who choose to leave the church. The church told Eyewitness News in a statement that disconnection is a “self-determined decision” and “voluntary.”

“Just relentlessly, for years and years, I was being told what a bad person he was, how suppressive and how evil,” said Tanja.

In 1999, Stefan was assigned to Scientology’s Rehabilitation Project Force (R.P.F.) for alleged financial misconduct and violations of the church’s moral code — charges he strongly denies. He was in for three years and nine months.

The church calls the  R.P.F. a voluntary program of religious retreat and rehabilitation and says Stefan agreed in writing to participate. But critics and some former Scientologists say the R.P.F. is a punishment program and have compared it to a labor camp.

“Work carried on overnight,” said Stefan. “For several occasions I was up for about five days straight.”

“We were first discouraged, and then not allowed to communicate with each other, or see each other, or be a married couple,” said Tanja.

Tanja says the still married couple defied those orders, staying in touch by cell phone.  But Tanja says when David Miscavige found out in the summer of 2004, she was demoted, their cell phones were taken away and Tanja was sent to live in near-isolation in a remote corner of Scientology’s sprawling International Base near Hemet.

“Somebody was watching me all the time and I got my meals brought to me by a security guard,” said Tanja.

The church denies this, telling us in a statement that Tanja “lived in an apartment in town or a house rented or owned by the church on a public street and traveled to and from work every day.”

“I was doing some sort of manual labor during the day,” said Tanja.

But Eyewitness News spoke with four former church members who all tell us they saw Tanja living in an old trailer in the “Old Gilman House” area of the base between 2004 and 2006.

In the fall of 2004, Tanja says she couldn’t take it anymore and she jumped the fence surrounding the Scientology base.

“There’s razor barrier along the top,” said Tanja, “but I managed to get myself over without hurting myself too much. I walked down Highway 79 — one of the security guards saw me.”

Tanja says that security guard alerted Scientology executives, two of whom she claims followed her down the highway in a van.

“She grabbed my arm,” said Tanja. “I started shouting and told them to leave me alone.”

But Tanja says the Scientology executives eventually convinced her to get in the van and return to the church.

“I was really concerned about getting into a situation where they would try to take me back,” said Tanja.

The church says any allegation Tanja was followed is a lie.

One month later, Stefan left the church.

“They wanted to put me back on the R.P.F. and it was sort of one of those moments,” said Stefan.

After Stefan left, the church offered him a $25,000 check. In return, Stefan had to sign a lengthy contract that prohibited him from ever contacting anyone in Scientology again. Stefan assumed that would include his wife, Tanja.

“There’s something here, why do they want to give me $25,000? I took the check, I signed the document, we did it on video,” said Stefan.

Stefan took that check and contract straight to an attorney.

“And he said, “Well look, this is actually illegal. They have your wife,'” recounts Stefan.

For the rest of the story go here: http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news&id=8730424

Published in: on July 16, 2013 at 2:45 pm  Comments (1)  

Ex-Scientologist Story #421, Jason Barclay Quits the Sea Org.

Join the SO and become a member of the Borg without leaving the planet.

Hubbard’s bathtub navy the Sea Borg.

Jason Barclay was a second generation who was recruited into the Sea Org at a young age.  His mother was initially against him joining until she was threatened with being declared a suppressive Person.  Only then did she relent.  Like many who sign up for a billion years in the remnants of Hubbard’s bathtub navy the day would come when he would have done just about anything to escape.

The Sea Org is notorious for overwork, miserable working conditions, punishments and constant browbeating.  They are encouraged to spy on each other, undergo extensive security checks. having their meagre belongs searched at any hour of the day or night for contraband items and having as little contact with the outside world as possible.  Savage minor org thugs constantly abuse their underlings with threats, yelling and even beatings.  Medical care is almost non-existent and living conditions are crowded.  Such is the wonderful world of L. Ron Hubbard.

Tony Ortega in his Underground Bunker series showed an interview with Jason in story published on April 19, 2013.  It should be noted that such stories do not come in a vacuum; there are many other such accounts on YouTube and in this blog.

To read Tony’s story go here: http://tonyortega.org/2013/04/19/jason-barclays-sea-org-adventure-a-fresh-escapee-details-abuse/

Otherwise you can see these vids here:

And here is something else interesting:

Published in: on April 21, 2013 at 9:29 pm  Comments (1)  

Ex-Scientologist Story #420, Bill Straass on the Slaveship, “Freewinds.”

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In this blog we have mentioned the Scientology ship, “Freewinds,’ a number of times.  RPF members have been kept on it for years on end making it a slave ship.  It is also a death ship due to the blue asbestos that was only removed only in the past few years.  Exposure to asbestos, especially the blue asbestos, is the main cause of mesothelioma.  This will come back to haunt former crew members at some point if it has not done so already.  Was a competent and through job done in removing the deadly asbestos?  I wouldn’t bet on it when it comes to Scientology and the Sea Org.

This ship is very important to Scientology as it is where the delivery of certain parts of the OT series takes place.  In theory those who take the upper level courses have no fear of cancer; they are “at cause” over such trivial matters.  In practice though OTs die all the time, sometimes young, from cancer.

Disease is part of this story for engineer Bill Straass was unfortunate enough to contract AIDS from a blood transfusion and as the symptoms became obvious he began to suffer.  His wife was also on the ship with him.  One would suppose that he would have been rushed to the nearest hospital for treatment.  After all, he was in the Sea Org for over 20 years and was a competent hand in the engine room.  If you think that well, you don’t know Scientology.  Nope, they made this couple’s life a misery until they ran off.  Then they came and got money from him!!!  Bill says this:

I was in the SO for 23 years, first at FSO and then as the Mechanics Chief Freewinds. I received a bad blood transfusion in 1989 when the ship was in Curacao. This was not spotted until 13 years later in 2002, as the fatigue got worse and worse. By that point, I was more than half dead and was finally diagnosed with AIDS.

Although they knew what was happening, ship personnel did not inform me of the situation nor the reason behind my rapidly declining health. I was simply called up to the  Medical Liaison office with the Captain and Chief Officer there, and told that I was going for further testing to see Dr Denk in LA. To make matters worse, Captain Napier told me not to tell my wife that I was going because “You know how women can be about things like this.” I thought WTF? I’m going to go to my cabin now and pack in front of her and then disappear in the morning without telling her? I objected and the Captain said “OK, tell her.”

So, in May, 2002 I arrived in LA to see Dr Gene Denk, “for further testing.” When I walked into his office he took one look at me and a shadow passed by his face. “They didn’t tell you, did they?” he asked.

“Tell me what?” was my reply.

Dr Denk told me I needed to go to the AIDS clinic in LA. However, the Freewinds sent me instead to a chiropractor in Sacramento who was not even a licensed medical doctor. The is the equivalent of being sentenced to death.This chiropractor advised me not to take the standard medical treatment as it was “worse than HIV.”

For the next 6 months, even while I was dying, my wife was held prisoner on the ship.  She was told by Captain Mike Napier that I “would be dead soon” so she should just end cycle on me. She petitioned ED INT for a 1 year LOA to handle my  situation, my thoughts being that we would both return when I was better. The petition was approved (She sent me a copy with ED INT’s signature on it.) The reply of the Chief Engineer to her was “I DON’T CARE IF YOU HAVE AN APPROVED PETITION FROM COB, THE CAPTAIN WILL NEVER LET YOU GO. I thought WTF? THe ship won’t take an order in writing from COB?

Thanks to their brutal opinion of staff members who had dedicated their lives to helping others, that statement became a self-fulfilling prophecy. She finally got off the ship when it was almost too late.

(Speaking of attitude, it was just part of the same suppressive attitude dramatized by the CO CMO Ship who ordered a shipmate of mine to “Get some thugs together and beat up staff members.”  We always thought that was completely off the rails. But now it seems pretty clear where such ideas were coming from — directly from the top, as in David Miscavige.

Some readers may wonder why I didn’t follow Dr. Denk’s recommendations in the first place. The reason is simple, Sea Org members do not choose their own medical treatment. They have a billion-year contract so death is expected anyway and after 21 years Leave of Absence the idea is to return to duty. . .

The worst thing about it was not what happened to me. I was willing to die to clear the planet, as is everyone who signs a billion year contract. I lied to protect the church from it’s crimes. My wife called me daily, begging me to do something to get her out of there as she was taking abuse because she would not just let me die as ordered. I went to LA and talked to IJC several times and wrote reports. I even asked the Port Captain Ludwig Alpers if the plan was to hold her there until I was dead. He did not give me an answer but said that he would get back to me. I never heard back from him. . .

As an aside, I often did Quartermaster duty at the gangway as well as my own post. For several months around 1998 I was surprised to see that the QM desk had been turned around so the QM, instead of facing outward to observe external threats to the ship, now faced inward. Obviously, the real threats were now considered to be people on the ship who wanted to leave at any cost, not the anyone who wanted to sneak on board. It had been re-designed obviously to keep people from escaping from the ship.

Eventually the chief engineer got some solid medical treatment and returned to health, no thanks to his erstwhile shipmates.  This story, as well as any that I have come across, shows what life is like when you live on board a ship full of raving fanatics.  To read the full story go here: http://www.scientology-cult.com/freewinds-off-purpose-off-course.html

For more information about life on this slave ship read this: https://androvillans.wordpress.com/2011/12/09/ex-scientologist-story-381-valeska-guider-paris-12-years-before-the-mast-as-a-slave/

A naval architect warned that this ship was full of asbestos but his advice was ignored.  Read this if you want to know how decisions are reached in Hubbard’s bathtub navy.  https://androvillans.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/ex-scientologist-story-139-asbestos-death-ship-ots-not-to-worry/

Published in: on April 4, 2013 at 11:25 am  Comments (1)  

Forced Disconnection; Ex-Scientologist story #419

Susan Talbot and her friends picket the cult.

Susan Talbot and her friends picket the cult.

Tommy Davis, who was until recently the liar in chief of Scientology’s PR office, claimed time and again that there is no such thing as “disconnection” in Scientology.  But of course that fooled no one as that is one charge against the cult that has been very well documented over the years.  Anyone who quits the cult becomes a non-person in the eyes of all Scientologists including, especially including, family members.  The fear of never speaking again to loved ones acts as a strong deterrent to quitting Scientology.  Still, strong-minded people DO quit and damn the consequences.  Here is the story of one such person, Linda McCarthy, who quit after 32 years in the Sea Org.  It took a lot to drive her out of Scientology but David Miscavige and his minions were once again equal to the task.  After years of seeing and experiencing outrages within the cult Linda found her way to the blog of Marty Rathbun and after studying that  made up her mind, she states:

In studying all the information to be had, all I could do is conjure thoughts and pictures of “what can be done?” and “what can I do?”  But that was kind of a moot point, because I have a family. I have a son that I love with every fiber of my being. I love his wife and my two new grandsons. They are  Scientologists. Both ex-SO, but know anything outside the C of M is black, and anything inside, is white.  Knowing the op basis of the C of M, the disconnection enforcement, the veiled if not verbalized threats of “no-eternity-for-you”, and how the whole subject of “you’re either with us or against us” is tied up and enforced…. well, I knew what I was facing. So I put it off. . .

 

. . . Then I talked to my son more, with him telling me that he was going to have to disconnect, but I probably have a few hours; to let him know I could come stay with him – he’d put me up; I could get the real truth, and and and.

So the hours elapsed and that’s the end of it. No return phone calls. Nice Mother’s Day. The next day, my in-box if full of “friends” who wanted to check with me if it’s true that I’d resigned from the church,and/ or joined an SP group. No one knew anything about this cycle except me, my son, my daughter-in-law and OSA. I’m assuming my daughter-in-law hit my facebook profile and sent a bulk announcement. Then it went viral with all manner of facebook police jumping aboard.

In a 48 hour period my “friends” on Facebook went from 214 to 130.
Here’s a smattering of them:
“I was told there is something on you at AOLA”
“Is it true you resigned from the Church?”
“Brief me. I just got some news, not so good news on you crossing over the fence. I don’t have any other data except a rumor – what’s the deal? Are you okay? Still with the team, or what? Brief me.”
“I just received a comm from someone on Facebook telling me you resigned from the church and are hooked up with an SP group”.
“I was informed by someone that you have resigned from the church. And that you have connections to known SP groups. Is this truly the case?”

These are the ways the mighty “Church of Scientology” has been reduced in order to keep their members in the fold.  Yet the group is in decline and there is little upside to the shrinking band of Hubbard adherents.   Despite all the pain that Scientology causes people it is destined for the dunghill of history as a marginal note on how mean and crazy people can be when they have a bad cause to follow.

To read the entire story go here:  http://www.scientology-cult.com/disconnect-a-rama.html


disconnected sign

Published in: on April 3, 2013 at 12:54 pm  Leave a Comment  

Ex-Scientologist Story #417, Carol Nyburg (Vedder) is OUT.

You come back?  Thanks for warning me, I'll be sure to hide the silverware.

You come back? Thanks for warning me, I’ll be sure to hide the silverware.

After some 26 years in the Sea Org, most of it served running the accommodations at the Ft. Harrison hotel in downtown Clearwater at Flag Land Base this woman decided that she had enough.  It took a lot to drive this completely dedicated woman out of Scientology but David Miscavige and his minions were equal to the task.

Stories of abuse in the Sea Org, the remnants of Hubbard’s bathtub navy who deliver the “tech” to the public members, are easy to come by.  But her story of just how paranoid the cult is about Sea Org members coming into contact with any negative outside influences shows just how the already tight shackles were tightened even more by current Scientology management.  Sea Org members have less rights and human dignity than convicts in a federal penitentiary.  This story again makes the point that Hubbard’s world is not something that most of us would want anything whatsoever to do with.

The excerpts below are taken from an article found in “Scientology Cult,” website.  It was published March, 19, 2013.  Here is the link to the story.  It is a rather involved tale but well worth the time to read it.  http://www.scientology-cult.com/carol-nyburg-vedder-is-out.html

Meeting David Miscavige

First I must tell a story that happened around 1990.  Mr. David Miscavige came to the Fort Harrison to do an inspection of the hotel.  He had several senior execs with him, one of whom was Mike Rinder.  I didn’t know enough to be frightened or on guard.  I was just myself and I was good at my job, I was good running the FH and taking very good care of my guests there.  Anyway, Mr. Miscavige wanted to inspect the Presidential Suite.  It was about 10 am.  I informed him that the guest in that room, who, by the way, lived there year round and was our highest paying guest, slept till noon and did not like to be disturbed till she called down.  The staff were very tuned into her needs and wants.  Our utmost concern was that she would have privacy when asked for and we would service her to the hilt when requested. 

Well, this did not sit well with Mr. Miscavige.  He told Mr. Rinder to tell me that I had caused “counter intention” in his universe and this was just not done. It was unforgivable. I refused to wake our guest.

Mr. Rinder, under DM’s orders, ordered me removed from post till I had confessed my transgressions by writing down 20 pages of them.  I was really shocked but also I was intimidated and one just did not speak up or speak back to senior execs.  I recall the Commanding Officer of the Flag Land Base at that time, was in charge of ensuring I got this done.  I had no idea what to write.  I just started making up stuff just to get through this.  I mean 20 pages!  How does one determine that.  It was crazy.  Anyway, I got through it and was restored to my post. 

The shackles tighten

Again, I had fun. I still had my car.  This is significant because by 1999, the staff were no longer allowed to drive our cars into work.  This apparently came down from David Miscavige, reason that there were “too many cars” taking up valuable spaces in the downtown area of Clearwater.  I really don’t know if that was true.  It was sort of plausible, so ok, I started taking the bus.  Then gates went up at the Quality Inn where I lived and a security guard was posted at the gate so you couldn’t just go shopping when you got home. Suddenly, you couldn’t go anywhere.  You could sometimes get an ok if your need warranted it but often you were turned back. When you got a day off, you could take your car out or on Saturday mornings.  Saturday morning was the time allotted to staff members to clean their rooms, wash clothes, etc.  It was a time to just get your personal life in order. Still, all the staff had to attend a roll call at 9 am in the parking lot to ensure all were present except those with an approval for time off. 

Sometimes one’s liberty only consisted of the cleaning time in the morning.  Meaning they could go do something and did not have to report to muster, but needed to be on post by 1 pm. 

Rooms were inspected and one needed to pass inspection.  These inspections got increasingly crazy as we move into the 2000s. “Crazy” meaning all clothes in your closet must be color coordinated and facing a certain direction, drawers very neat.  About once a month we would need to “de-kludge” (get rid of “unnecessary” belongings). . . .

A list of DO’S AND DON’T’S for Flag staff members came into existence sometime around this time — I don’t recall exactly when. And everyone was expected to abide by these rules.  These do’s and don’ts were not covered in any LRH Policy.  We were told that because we were at the top organization of Sea Org members, we had to abide by extra rules and guidelines for security purposes and to protect us as well.  We could no longer walk between buildings around Clearwater, we had to take a Church bus or van provided by the Church for these purposes.  If your production statistics were up, you could go to Starbucks or a local shop for a sandwich.  Eventually, no one was allowed to visit any local restaurants but Starbucks was still okay.  I used to go to the local vitamin shops whenever I could and I tried to sneak food from places. . .

Well, there were computers at the library, so the Flag security guards would take turns going to the library to stop any Sea Org members from using the computers.  I realized since leaving staff that access to the Internet meant access to email — a lifeline to the outside world.  Our communication lines were intentionally cut and we were kept in the dark. I had no idea of my rights or of the laws against human trafficking that prohibited people from being able to freely come and go. I had no idea how to access the Internet or even send an email. And of course I couldn’t ask anyone. . .

Ratcheting up the punishment

A registrar is the person on staff that gets the public to sign up for a service and gets them to pay for it.  My job was to be a registrar selling hotel accommodations.  We had the nickname of “regges”.  As mentioned before, I did that, and knew a lot of public from all over the world.  People liked coming to accommodations because I was not regging them for services or the IAS, (International Association of Scientologists) or books or anything else.  The public saw a lot of regges while they were there getting the services.  Then when I was made to have quotas to also sell books and then added to that was a quota to get donations for the IAS as well, well I became just like all the other regges.  I could feel the public looking at me like “Et tu Brute?”  I hated it and didn’t want to do it.  There was all kinds of pressure to do this.  I tried to query these quotas on several occasions to no avail.  There were some nights when a very senior SO member would literally sit in the chair next to my desk while I called all over the world trying to sell Basics.  He would just sit there and watch me.  Because he was in an upper group at the Base, I did not dare chit chat with him or try to query any orders.  There was no way I could leave until he said it was okay.  He eluded on occasion that he was not allowed to eat until our quotas in the accommodations section were met.  He was in charge of our group to ensure we were selling Basics.

There were a couple of times that I went to dinner at my designated dinner time and was met by a security guard asking if I had met my quota for that time period yet.  If the answer was no, I was not allowed to eat. For a time I stopped going to dinner and snuck in food from the canteen.  I always paid for it, but staff members were not allowed to go into the canteen for anything until after 10 or 11 pm.  So I had friends in the kitchens put stuff aside for me. 

One thing a staff member was continually threatened with was being sent to “the bilges”. This is a ship term and that is where it came from.  Staff on the ship did “bilge duty” if they had to handle some ethics situation.  As there were no actual bilges at Flag, ethics officers came up with doing pots or dishes after post for an hour, or cleaning out the garbage room where the dumpster was. When one was working already into the night, it was kind of strange.  You would stop around 11 pm, do your bilges then go back to post.  The most gruesome assignment was to clean out port-o-potties.  There were renovations happening across from the Fort Harrison, so there were port-o-potties. I wonder what the construction workers thought about really clean port-o-potties the next morning.  I did whatever I could to get out of these punishments. 

Various projects were worked up for us to do.  I can tell you another bilge experience:  the Sandcastle Hotel staff that were responsible for keeping the hotel filled especially the penthouses, were regularly sent to do dishes after hours if the penthouses were not filled.  This sometimes included me.  I was called upon to fill those rooms on a daily basis.  I didn’t like to do it because it wasn’t what people were coming to Flag and especially to the Sandcastle for. 

I can tell you that when any senior executive at Flag, not just senior execs from Int, were addressing you, if they yelled at you or gave you some order, the only acceptable answer was “Yes sir!”  If you said anything else, there was no telling what might happen to you.  In the extreme, you could be sent to the Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF) for such an infraction or at least back to do more bilges or an ethics program. You could write something up on it later, but it became increasingly difficult to decide what to do with a write-up.  Where would you send it? Who would really read it or listen? You were more likely to be investigated if you queried an executive order.  I know one hotel staff member that questioned our late hours and lack of sleep.  She started looking up LRH references on sleep and that LRH insisted staff get proper sleep.  He stated on more than one occasion that lack of sleep can make a person start acting stupid.  Once in a while in an emergency it was acceptable to lose some sleep — but not on a regular basis.  As a result, she was removed from post and ended up on the RPF mainly for being mutinous — encouraging other staff to question violations of policy regarding abusive sleep deprivation and off-Policy schedules.  We were told we are spiritual beings or thetans and we are not bodies and we can really endure anything.  We could just make things go right not matter what. 

I remember some Thursdays nearly falling asleep at my desk trying to write up my week-ending report.  I remember this because senior officers or security guards would come around to ensure we were doing what we were supposed to be doing.  My junior was found falling asleep at her desk, and she really go in trouble.  I would sometimes slap my face to stay awake.

Eventually she escapes and gets reunited with her daughter.  So despite all that happened this woman still maintained her inner being against all odds.

 

Published in: on March 25, 2013 at 12:17 pm  Comments (1)  

Ex-Scientologist Story #417, “lied to, scammed and financially raped . . .”

scientology_worse

Charles Jeronimo had been a public member at the Stevens Creek Mission before joining the Sea Org.   In his posts about his time in Scientology he had some very hard words for the cult in general and certain members in particular.  This was posted in October of 2011:

Today is the one year anniversary of my walking up and down Sunset Blvd. blinded by tears, suicidal & having a nervous breakdown because I realised that I’d been lied to, scammed and financially raped by “Church” of $Scientology cult & (Sea Org. para-military) members Kirk Steele, Lisa Starkey, Laura Kindermann, of ASHO and Dan Bragin, & Tim Edwards of the IAS. Others include Miriam, (Bright?) IAS & Tony (last name?), public.

A few days later after this epiphany I’m ashamed to admit the so-called Asst. Chaplain the detestable Lisa Starkey talked me out of signing a Routing Form at the time. Yes, she gave me the “your eternity” bit. I was at about 49% “I don’t give a fuck, you bastards robbed me”, but, there was the other 51% of falling for the cults BULLSHIT.

I came home to Oregon in April and over the next few months tried to recover my sanity and equilibrium. It was pretty hard but I have to credit my mother for helping me to get most of the way back. It was the most difficult time of my life. I’ve never really suffered in my life until last year. What also helped was finding ESMB.

In Sept. 2011 I was feeling good enough to begin to get my money back. Thus began the current comedy. Finding the correct clown, (Adam Ghiorra)  in the ASHO circus proved a challenge. But in early Oct. the “communication” via emails began and after a ridiculous amount of passive/agressive behaviour on his part I received a wavier form signed it, notarized it and sent back. After repeatedly inquiring of the status of my money I was finally told my “terminal” is now the CVB and was told to stop bothering ASHO. They’ve ignored numerous emails, letters, and phone calls regarding how much money I have on account at ASHO. The CVB & IAS have also failed to respond.

In my last letter to ASHO & the CVB I stated that today March 13th 2012 was the day I seek to get my money back via legal means. There has been plenty of time, since October of 2011, for them to respond to me about my very basic question of how much money I have on account at ASHO. And when I’m going to get it back.

They are in violation of their own policy letters and agreements with the IRS regarding their 1993 tax exemption. As well as being a horrible corporate citizen who treat customers like shit. A couple weeks ago I obtained a lawyer and now the legal circus begins. Have it your way cult. It’s not costing me anything. I would have just went away quietly if you would simply have returned my money that was taken from me. I never would have said a word. Not now. You’ve created a life long enemy of your cult.

I’ve already been to see the local Sheriff and Police chief, they were very interested in my experience with the cult and thanked me for enlightening them with further study material on the cult’s history and tactics. Horrified by you, actually. “Church, my ass” was one comment. If you attempt to DA me with law enforcement it will fail.

Kill me? Couldn’t care less, you already tried last year with your “tech”. FAIL. Even if you succeed I’ll be back.  So send your down-stat goons. (a little Scio humor).

By all that’s holy, God, I hate you bastards. You robbed me of my dreams, you know what I mean, Kirk Steele. And you too Tim Edwards, You fucking piece of shit.

To read his full post go here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?26575-Another-Repayment-Thread&p=669712#post669712

Published in: on March 15, 2013 at 10:17 pm  Leave a Comment  

Ex-Scientologist Story #415, Lost Faith in Chicago

ex-files-scientology21

Excerpts here taken are from the below story about how Dave Fagen, a devoted staff member of the Chicago Org, found out the real story about what is going on inside Scientology. 

One of the reasons Debbie Cook’s infamous New Year’s Eve e-mail had such a huge effect was that it provided a look from inside at what was tearing apart the Church of Scientology.

Cook’s e-mail spelled out in high relief what ex-Scientologists had been telling us were the issues causing so many longtime, dedicated church members to flee the organization. It had nothing to do with Xenu, the jokes of late-night comedians, the constant bad press, or even the global protests. Cook’s complaints were all about a cancer eating away at Scientology from its guts: a crisis in faith over the leadership of David Miscavige.

Now, just a few months later, we have another remarkable testimony describing in even greater detail the problems facing Miscavige’s church. . .

By February 2010, Dave writes, he faced a personal crisis. Synthia, it was plain, was leaving Scientology, and he knew that he’d either have to consider for himself what had changed her point of view, or leave her.

I didn’t want to leave my wife and the idea of leaving Scientology was a completely foreign concept up until then…I had never read anything negative about it in years and I hadn’t wanted to. The idea of reading things like that on the Internet seemed like a very surreal idea to me.

Then, Dave made his own fateful decision: to trust his own intelligence and judgment. He would look at the material online to evaluate it for himself.

Do I not have the ability to judge data for myself? Why would I need an authority to tell me whether something is true or something is not true?

The result? Reading “The Truth Rundown” devastated him, Dave writes. Amy Scobee, Tom DeVocht, Mike Rinder, Marty Rathbun — these were not just any group of ex-church members. These were people who had been in Scientology for decades and had served it at the highest level. And they were all reporting the same thing — that Miscavige was a brutal person to work for, a man they had seen on multiple occasions assault his employees. For Dave Fagen, it rang true, and that astounded him.

I could imagine being in a state where I am wondering day-to-day whether or not I am going to get physically beaten in some way. And this is happening at Int management of the Church of Scientology!

Dave kept reading. If the church was not being honest about conditions for upper management, what else was questionable? For one, he began to realize, Miscavige’s constant claims for ever-growing expansion just didn’t add up.

The church claims that there are 10,000 orgs, missions and groups…Where are they?

Last I knew there were about 175 Class V orgs. This would mean that the Class V orgs average 45.7 missions and groups per org.

I know that for Chicago, there are about 5 missions and one field auditor that I know of who actually audits. (If it’s more, I apologize for overlooking but it isn’t much more than that).

I’ve been to Flag [Scientology’s spiritual headquarters, the “Flag Land Base” in Clearwater, Florida] and I’ve known staff members from all over the world and I have never heard of one single org having over 10 missions. And as far as “groups” are concerned, I don’t know what the church is considering a “group” to consist of, but I’ve never heard of any org that had anything that could be considered to be anywhere near 45 of them. In Chicago, I never saw anything like what I would consider a high number of highly productive field groups.

If my org had 45 missions and field groups, I’m sure that after being on staff for 25 years, I would be able to name more than 5 missions and one field auditor in the area.

My point here is not to belittle the hard-working staff members of the church, it is to get them to actually look at what is going on. The claim of 10,000 orgs, missions and groups is a false report! And that’s another extreme out-ethics indicator.

And also the church was claiming that it has over 8,000,000 members!

Let’s just say that Flag, ASHO, AOLA, AOSH UK, AOSH ANZO and AOSH EU* each had 10,000 people in their local areas that would be considered to be public of those orgs. (I doubt that it is anywhere near that high but I could be wrong. Check for yourself if you want but I’m using this as a generous assumption.) That would be 50,000 Scientologists right there. [*Acronyms for advanced orgs in Los Angeles, the UK, Copenhagen, and Australia.]

That would leave 7,950,000 members of the church to account for as affiliated with 175 Class V orgs. You know how many church members that makes per org? That’s 45,428.57 members per Class V org.

Last I knew, my org had, without a doubt, no more than 1,000 active members. And that is a very generous estimate. Sure, there may be many hundreds of times more than that amount in the Central Files, but the overwhelming majority of those folders are of people who only bought a book and did nothing further. And then I would say that there are at least a few thousand in there who once were active in Scientology but haven’t done anything in Scientology for many years. In my book, that doesn’t count, and if that’s the basis for the 8,000,000 members, to count anyone who ever bought a book or ever had even just one contact with an org or mission, or isn’t actually a Scientologist anymore, then I call that a STAT PUSH and also another false report. . .

I would think that if Scientology was undergoing “explosive growth”, that there would be some more new orgs popping up in the world. (And I don’t mean just new buildings for orgs that already exist.)…

In my org for my last 5 years on staff, I don’t recall ever having more than 110 bodies in the shop in any week and I would say most of the time it was less than 100. That is no more than it was 15 years earlier. So you need to actually look in orgs to see if Scientology is expanding, not just listen to what someone at an event says is happening. . .

I knew we were not making auditors, I knew that auditor training was virtually replaced by the Basics courses being done in the Academies…

How many Class VIIIs have you seen made in the last 15 years? Personally, I don’t know of any public who became permanent Class VIIIs within that time…

The Golden Age of Tech [Miscavige’s controversial 1996 re-working of Hubbard’s training regimens] was supposed to have solved, utterly, the problem of not being able to make volumes of perfect auditors anywhere in the world. That was the main claim. From 1996 on, we were supposed to witness and experience the biggest training boom in the history of Scientology. . .

I personally know of at least two auditors who were auditing before the release of the Golden Age of Tech who are no longer auditing. One of them was my auditor and was my personal favorite. He was told, not too long after the GAT release, that he was forbidden from auditing at all until he completed his certainty courses. He was one of the best, if not the best, auditor I have had. He hasn’t audited in about 15 years.

In the last couple of years, when I was working in the church, there was at least one major fundraiser of some sort just about every week quite in addition to the daily fundraising required…

When you donate tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars to the IAS, or when you spend late nights at great personal sacrifice trying to get others to donate tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars to the IAS, don’t you think you have a right to know exactly where the money all goes?

To read the full article go here: http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/06/scientology_dave_fagen.php

Dave also has an excellent blog: http://davefagen.wordpress.com/

Published in: on December 20, 2012 at 3:18 pm  Comments (2)